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Talk:Hittite Wars of Survival

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Title

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Hey @Kennet.mattfolk, thanks for writing this article! Given your edit summary, I thought I might chime in to note that the term "concentric invasions" is standardly used for this period and could be a suitable title for the article. Some other comments:

  • The "Background" section could use a broader characterization of the political situation on the eve of these wars. To appreciate why these events were shocking, a reader needs to understand that the Hittites had firmly controlled its core territory in Hatti for the previous 200 years. But to understand why these events were possible, they also need to understand how fragile the empire was and how tenuous its control over outer regions was.
(I don't have access to the Damien Stone source, but I suspect this is what he was attempting to do when bringing up Madduwatta. I don't think Madduwatta is generally considered a cause of Hittite weakness so much as a reflection of it.)
  • If you wanted to expand this further, I've always found the Pharaoh's diplomatic overtures to Arzawa really fascinating, so more information on that could be really nice to include. Similarly, I remember something about Hittite scribes exchanging personal messages in the margins of their official correspondence during this period, which gives a nice personal window into what it was like to live through this period. I think Bryce discusses this in the book you cite, though I don't have it handy.

At any rate, nice work! Botterweg (talk) 00:40, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'm ok with changing the title in principle, if so I just hope it's attested in source or it's 'better' then the current one.
That said, the 'concentric invasions' was a term to describe a phase of the wars by Bryce in the book I had, meaning it didn't describe the first part with Arnuwanda fighting the Kaskians only. In that sense the new name would be painted by one phase. A similar name thus could be Hittite reconqusta if emphasis is put on that part. Originally I wanted a name to reflect the hole period.
Which is sorta back to the original problem I had of too long headers/names, 'Hittite period of concentric invasions and reconquista' :D
There was another Hittite war I wrote an article about an finding a proper name is difficult if it's not given to you. :D
One that could work that just came to me could be Hittite multi-front war, idk, that too has issues :)
The backround is based on Stones work if I'm not mistaken, he only mentioned that as a reason why it could happen. The argument stone makes isn't that of a direct cause, where because of Madduwatta invasion of Kaskians, rather as an indirect reason. Mainly that Hittites may have moved attention, resources, troops in that direction leaving it more exposed elsewhere. So when the Kaskians became hungry and look which of their neigbours would be easiest to invade, they picked Hattusa.
I saw the Arzawan aspect in one of the links I used as source, though thought I'd prefer a book source for it and never got around to checking the Bryce book. I can look it up there, though I don't remember reading it there. :)
Thnx, glad someone likes it :) Kennet Mattfolk (talk) 08:46, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Just checked, both Stone and Bryce uses the term Concentric Invasions to describe the phase where the Kaskian-Hittite war escalated into a multi front one. Kennet Mattfolk (talk) 09:16, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
As to the new additions, I think I found sources to it all, though not all the best, some are website sources. I could write more background into that section, such as the the Hittites also being tied down at the Border with Mitanni and not responding efficiently to the initial early phase due to fears in that direction. However I'm limited by the source situation at my disposal. One of the links I used, frequently cited Bryce, written by a David Ross. Though the Bryce work I have at hand is a shorter, but updated version of Bryce's earlier work Kingdom of the Hittites and other works and is not necessarily detailed enough to cover all new additions. While stone covers this period in a few pages in total. :) Kennet Mattfolk (talk) 09:35, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]